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Topic : 12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Number of Replies: 954
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Created on : Friday, September 26, 2008, 02:43:44 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard3

(Original Air Date: 10/03/08) It’s being called the ultimate form of child abuse -- brainwashing your children against an ex-spouse to win custody. Could you be harming your child emotionally and not even know it? First up, Ken is a successful surgeon who says he’s the victim of parental alienation syndrome (PAS). He says he hasn’t seen his 14-year-old son since last October and claims his ex-wife destroyed what was once a loving father-son relationship. Mel Feit, director of the National Center for Men, says Ken’s situation is a classic case of kids being turned against their father, but family law attorney Liz Kates says PAS is a phony tactic used by some men to get out of paying child support. What does Dr. Phil think? Then, Karen lost custody of her children after she was accused of parental alienation syndrome by her ex-husband. Karen maintains her innocence, so why were her parental rights terminated when her daughters accused her ex of sexual abuse? Plus, 19-year-old Demi joins the show via Web cam and says her father verbally abused her mother during their divorce. Now, she fears that her 15-year-old sister is caught in the middle. Find out what you can do if you’re caught between sparring parents. And, meet a father so desperate to see his young children, he kidnapped them from his ex-wife and went on the lam for two years. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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September 27, 2008, 5:58 pm CDT

Selfishness & Envy are the Reasons....

...that I believe PAS exists. My husband, Dan, and I have been together for almost 8 years. This is my first marriage and his second. He and his first wife had two children. His first wife left the marriage in 1995, after meeting someone on the internet . She had no resources or plan to support her children. She struggled with emotional and financial problems while living on her own. My husband had custody of both children after she left, though she had visitation. In addition, she paid NO child support.


Flash forward to 2001 when I met my husband....everyone is getting along OK, first wife re-marries and moves about 30 miles away. My husband and I get serious and make plans to get married (all this time the kids are living with him and see her once every other weekend, which was her choice, at her new home). Well, as soon as Dan and I bought our new home and started making plans for the future with the kids (from vacations to choosing and paying for college), this women went nuts! She started telling lies about Dan to the kids, particularly my step-son, sendiing me e-mails accusing me of being a childstealer, among other things. She made it very difficult for the kids, and us, and all this time she is still didn't pay a dime of child support!


For the next five years she continued to lie, evaded child support ,and  voluntarily impoverished herself by quitting her job as a school teacher to go back to school to get a Master's Degree! Can you believe it? So while this is all happening, she is continuing to tell my stepson, who was 15 through 19 at the time, what a horrible father and stepmother, Dan and I were. One night in January of 2006, after an argument with his dad, my stepson left the house, called her, went to live with her and for ALMOST A YEAR didn't speak to us! Through all this craziness, her craziness, Dan "took the high road" and refused to stoop to her level. I was so angry...angry that she had a $27,000 child support bill reduced to $4,400 (She told my stepson that Dan and I were trying to financially ruin her by enforcing the child support order - WHAT?!?) , angry that she alienated my stepson from his Dad, his older sister and me, angry that she went out a bought a BMW Mini-Cooper, while my husband and I are both working full time and sacrificing to pay for braces, college, car insurance, clothing, cell phone, you name it.


Now that my stepson is a Junior in college, I think he "gets it". He has distanced himself from her, but as he has said to us, he feels "sorry for her". My step-daughter is cooly cordial toward her and has no desire to have a mother/daughter relationship, but that has come with a cost to my stepdaughter's trust and self-esteem. I believe that their mother's own insecurities, fear of loss, selfishness and envy of us and our relationship as a family made her alienate herself from her children through the veil of PAS.  I can't be responsible for her "choices" and it is a shame that during the most critical period of her children's lives, their teen years, she pitted them against us as a way of being in control, because she had no control over her own life. Sometimes, I think PAS is self-induced and we all pay for it. 

September 27, 2008, 6:57 pm CDT

EX- Mother _in Law From Hell

Hell'o.this is about my daughters ex- mother -n - son-n-law or ex- I love him as if he were my own son.he has treated .He has treated my grandson as if he were his own.And this is everything my grandson needed so that time..the [donor] dad as we call him where my grandson can't here us.didn't want to pay chil suppot or even see him most of the time..So Jamis was a God sent.His Mother is from Hell, there is no other way to explain it.She hates my grandson from my daughter,Jamie[ex-son -n- law]has another son witch is blood--and when he and my dayghter married i was so happy to get another grandson..I hate the word [Step}-------so my point is this women is that way---she is evil--She told my son-n-law if he doesnt stop seeing and taking Malcom..Grandson than she told him he had to move out of the house he rents from them....And Jamie said {No} he wont stop seeing his son......
September 27, 2008, 7:01 pm CDT

EX- Mother _in Law From Hell

oh yes ,the son-n-law's mother has trid to control him by doin this,,,it wont work bit it does cause him pain..she told hime she hates him;;;she is the main reason their marriage didn't work....Donna'''''the end of Mother-n law From Hell
September 27, 2008, 7:44 pm CDT

its a legal problem

In my situation, My ex husband was aggressively emotionally abusive.  When he started and I asked him to stop, he would get worse and not stop until I was devastated.  When I finallly, after 13 years, started to divorce him, he started the alienation in full force.  During the 13-year marriage, he paid little to no attention to the children, 3 boys, but they did hear him put me down many times and they heard him tell them they didn't have to listen to me as a part of his emotional abuse of me.  During the divorce proceedings, he took the two oldest boys without my permission and knowledge.  After I got the boys back, they were totally out of control.  The ex was telling them to break things in the house with the explanation that the things were his and it was ok to destroy the property, and this included my car.  The children's behavior became horrible and I had to involve the police and even invoke the help of a mental inpatient facility for one of my boys.  At court a year later, the judge said they should all go to their father to live.  The children talked about a fear they were going to be poisoned by me.  The evaluating psychologist said there was alienation happening and that the ex should stop.  I was granted visitation which eventually stopped for the two older boys because they said they didn't want to ever see or talk to me again and the ex refused to make them.  From evidence I have gathered from phone conversations, the ex was alienating them from me in full force constantly and I suspect that the children couldn't handle it. They constantly said they hated me, didn't want to visit me, didn't want any presents from me (one of them even threw a present in the garbage can right in front of me), and generally wouldn't receive any love from me, much less give it out.  I never stopped trying.


I also suspect, from information I have gathered about the disease, that my ex is narcissistic but undiagnosed.  He needs to be the good one.  He needed to be the best parent, the only parent, to make himself feel ok. Nothing can be his fault.  He lies to make himself look good.  He stretches the truth to make himself look like the one who is the victim.  The children felt like he needed to be taken care of. 


The legal system in our state (MD), requires there to be a custodial home and a noncustodial parent who pays child support.  The parent who wins custody wins, according to my ex.  He won because he got my money and the house, he got to control the children, and through the children, he got to control bits and pieces of my life, thus holding on to some sort of control over me.  We all know abusive people are all about control.  I suspect that it would not have been so bad and my relationship with my children would not have been so damaged if the system required joint custody with parenting plans and mediation, with the stipulation that the parent who isn't cooperating would lose their rights.  That would take most of the money factor out of the equation and give each parent some sort of consequence for not following the rules.  My ex got no real consequences even though he was found guilty of contempt of court for not following the child custody orders twice.


As a post script, my two older boys are 20 and 21, live apart from their father by choice, saying they don't respect him for their own reasons that have nothing to do with the alienation.  They don't speak of the alienation except for one of them saying he wished things had been different.  I'm not sure they fully realize what happened to them but they both want to have a relationship with me.  I have to be very careful with what I say to them as our relationship is very delicate.  My 17 year old has come to live with me last week.  Father has kicked him out of the house and he won't go back.  There is still lots of drama in this situation and we have not gone to court on it yet.

September 27, 2008, 8:08 pm CDT

Family Courts are out of control

Parents engage in PAS (both men and women) are abusing the legal system by filing fake domestic violence petitions and child abuse allegations.  These same individuals feel that any action even falsifying official documents are justified-  just as long as as the alienator gets the kids.  Too often, the innocent parent is devasted and appears emotionally upset in court-  while the alienator is calm as a cucumber.  What happens is that the judge rules for the calm parent (although the allegations are false) taking the children away from the parent who is upset and actually cares the children.


Whats worse;  even when the victim parent proves to the Court that the alienator parent committed perjury by filing false documents--  nothing ever happens to the alienator.  Thus the law needs to be changed that any bad faith domestic violence petition, or child abuse allegation automatically is against the best interests of the children.


Just so every one knows;  my ex husband, an attorney has filed multiple bogus domestic violence petitions against me.  One was that domestic violence was going to happen in the future.  Another that marching in public with a sign was domestic violence;  I was convicted of domestic violence on that by a judge who had multiple ex parte communications with my ex husbands attorney.

September 27, 2008, 8:20 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

This is just another avenue for the lawyers to get more money out of people.  No one pays attention to the signs of abuse that  children. continue to be exposed to.  It's all about every parent having a relationship with their kids at the cost of the child's well being.  No one wants to get off the fence and help the children and take the time to explore what's really going on so they invent some other ridiculous syndrome.  My son continues in counseling and states "no one listens to what he' s telling them goes on at his dad's house" and up until recently has been forced to go reluctantly.  Not to say that this type of thing does ot happen but come on, let's get real.  Who's protecting our children in the judicial system?  No one wants to take the time for they are inundated with so many cases.  Has anyone thought about maybe changing the laws to protect our children not insure every parent has a relationship with their child.  If they're abusive in anyway, shape or form they do not deserve to have a relationship with their child or children and children should not have to be exposed to it.  They are children, let them have the innocence of being children.



September 27, 2008, 8:27 pm CDT


It is becoming more common knowledge that abusive men use this defense of PAS to fool the judges into giving them custody.  I know numerous women whose children were being abused by their fathers, and the abusive fathers won custody because of this bogus allegation.   I was trying to protect my kids from their father's abuse.  I spent 7 miserable years sharing 50% custody of my kids with him.  I was personally accused of Pas by my ex-husband.  I had to go to criminal court and through that frustrating process when I was accused of PAS.  The female district attorney told my attorney that they filed charges against me just to get my ex-husband to stop calling them every day!  I had to be on probation for six months because of his accusation.


I finally won full custody of my kids 8 years ago.  I told their father to call them directly whenever he wanted visitation.  After 7 years of fighting to retain the 50% custody of our kids, once he lost custody, he stopped spending time with them.  He lives 17 miles away, and sees them for dinner a few times a year.  And when the kids called him to see him, he told them that he was "too busy".  He filed three frivolous law suits against me this year- one of them was to gain custody of our son, who turned 18 the day after the hearing.  If my ex truly wanted to be with the kids, he would have spent more time with them in the last 8 years.  And to this day, he blames me for alienating the kids from him.  What he doesn't realize is that he alienated the kids from him, without any help from me!


And the purpose of filing all thes frivolous lawsuits against me is to break me financially.  I've spent almost $100,000 on attorneys in the past 15 years, fighting him in lawsuit after lawsuit.  I think the legal system is in desperate need of educating judges about abusers, and how they use the legal system to continue the abuse.


and if there is a loving father out there who is wrongly accused of being abusive- I agree that you deserve custody of your kids.  I applaud any father who is loving and still wants to spend time with his kids after a divorce.

September 27, 2008, 9:07 pm CDT


Dr Phil


My son was abusive to me, my ex husband wouldnt help, he only said " If you cannot handle him send him to me. "  One night the police came and I lost my son. My ex never told my son he was wrong for hurting me.  He is now 17, drinking and drugging, My  little went with his dad due to therapist advise not to split them up. They were 11 and 13.  I have not seen my older son in 4 1/2 years,. My ex brought him to court to testify against me at 13. The judge threw it out after I pleaded guilty,  only because I saw the fear in my childs face at court and klnew that hjim testifing against me would harm him down the road. As I said, it was dismissed.  My ex has been court ordered for many things which he does comply to. I have to make calls about sports etc.  My younger son is on an IEP and last June he was to get 5x week tutoring, my ex went to the school and told them to drop that and put him in an extra math class ( which he is not weak in) the school did because my ex told them stories.  My older son has 3.0 GPA and is a senior, he was honor roll the entire 10 years he lived wih me.  My ex has disabilities and the school scored my sons test wrong, I caught and he did not.   Teenage suicide is so sons are brainwashed, not cared for, and have no one to turn to.   Welcome to my life.... welcome to my fears and helplessness. My children will just another statstic....another victom of PAS and fear of a socipath (sp) father

September 27, 2008, 11:07 pm CDT

PAS is junk science

The PAS monster was created by pro-pedophile Richard Gardner and his supposed findings were published in his own vanity press.  This is a far cry from being nationally recognized.  Call abuse what it is.  If there wer eabosultely no allegations of abuse and one parent is trying to turn the child against the other parent then that is abuse.  It is NOT a syndrome.  And allegations of abuse are not as common as some would lead you to believe.  A dismissal of charges or a finding that abuse did not occur beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean there was not abuse.  My ex is quite fond of saying I lied about the abuse because the courts did not find in my favor.  it does not mean he was innocent, it simply means I did not supply enough proof.  And with abusers it is difficult to supply that proof as abuse is hidden.  It is similar to incest and sex abuse, in fact any abuse.  No man is going to punch his wife while sitting in a crowded restaurant.  They will give a look and the beating will follow at home with only the children as witnesses.


One only needs to see the Parade article from July and the forum posts from that article (which are now blocked - I do have the link if Dr. Phil is interested).  Those opposed to mandatory shared parenting were literally attacked in every way possible.  Or go check out  The commenters on that blog will attack anybody - male or female - who opposes their viewpoints.  And the manner of the attacks (to me anyway) is so reminiscent of my ex it is scary.  So am I to not think these men who are so quick to abuse on a public forum - did not abuse their wives or children in private (where it can not be seen)?


Case in point - Alec Baldwin.  He cannot remember how old his child is "I don't care if you are 1 1or 12..." and goes on to call her a thoughtless pig.  This was done in a fashion that could be reported to the judge in the custody case.  One must seriously ask oneself if he is willing and able to do this where he could be caught - what does he do in private?  Abusers always act worse in private than they do in the public eye.  And Baldwin not only was abusive to his child that he supposedly loves sooo much, he was also abusive to others as well.

September 27, 2008, 11:30 pm CDT

My story

After being abused physically, emotionally, mentally, sexually by my son's dad for 2 years I fought back and I ended up in jail twice.  Both times all charges were dropped so I have never been convicted of domestic.   He lied to authorities in the beginning and did get a restraining order against me (which was dropped) in which he kicked me out of MY apartment (that I let him come back to stupidly after leaving him the 2nd time) and took my son away.  A whole month of no contact with my 1 year old about killed me.  For 3 months I was put on supervised visits an hour a week ( it was 2 hours but I had to get a 2nd job to pay for court ordered anger management).  I was doing the parenting classes when my son was four and was on my way to filing for custody.
 His father was a drug addict and I couldn't prove a thing..that is until he got busted for possession.  I know the family law here where I live and got an ex-parte hearing with immediate full custody and two weeks later I was granted it permanently and his father had the supervised visits.  He stalked me, harrassed me, and made my life miserable for 2 years. My son is almost 8 and in a healthy environment.  I could not afford a lawyer back then on 8 bucks an hour and a house to support.  My husband wasn't working at all at the time...just doing drugs.  He's now on disability and I get a payment for that every month for my son.
HIs father has repeated the same pattern with a girl younger than me.  I am 31, he is almost 46 and the other girl is almost 20. She was 16 when he started sleeping with her. They have 2 kids, 2 and 1 years old.  I love those kids dearly and she and I get along well and she left his sorry butt too.  So now, I get to deal with anxiety again because he's so messed up.  He is finally doing NA...he's been clean since March and now gets every other Saturday overnight.  I finally said it was ok for that.  However if, he causes me trouble I will go back to court and take it away for the best interest of my son. 
HIs other ex has custody of the kids so at least she didn't have to go through the heartbreak of being away from her kids for months on end.
My son knows his dad is bi-polar and "messed up in the head".  He still loves him though and I tell him that he is his dad and they are supposed to love each other.  I also tell him that his daddy loves him very much. 
It is difficult at times, but not like it used to be.  I do worry every time he goes to his dad's house. However I do know that the police are just a phone call away and I've personally had some of the local cops in his town tell me if I need anything...just call them.
We live 20 miles away thank god.
He will never get custody back because there is no way in hell that he can prove I"m unfit.  In fact, the original judge who gave him custody when our son was one said, when I got custody back that he agreed with the ex-parte judge and he had to prove me unfit, and since he couldn't...drug charges were serious so the order stood.  Permently.
Thank you for letting me share.
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