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Topic : 06/10 Deadly Kids

Number of Replies: 247
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Created on : Friday, October 12, 2007, 02:54:58 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/18/07) What if you feared your own child? Dr. Phil's guests say they worry that one day they may die at the hands of their offspring. Steven and Tori say Steven's 9-year-old son, Donovan, poisoned his siblings and then laced Tori's drink with aquarium cleaner. They say he laughed after his family members went to the hospital and has not shown remorse for his sinister acts. He's now in a treatment facility, but should Tori and Steven allow him back into their home once he's released? Then, Susie narrowly escaped death after her stepson tried to brutally kill her with a gun and then a knife. He's now behind bars, so why does she fear he will try to finish the job? And, Carrie and Lance fear their son, Michael, will be the next shocking murder headline. They say he threatened to cut his teacher's eyes out with a knife and kill his younger sister. When Michael becomes enraged, Carrie locks herself in the bedroom for fear of what he might do. Find out what Dr. Phil cameras caught on tape while at Carrie and Lance's house. And, why do the parents feel their son's behavior is influencing their daughter? What does Dr. Phil think is at the root of Michael's rage? Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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October 18, 2007, 2:20 pm CDT

Mean One Year Old Girl

I am concerned about a child that I have only met one time. This is a one year old girl. She is my granddaughter's half sister.


First this child is very overweight. She weighs over forty pounds, so she is very large for her age. I mention this only because her size makes her behavior even more threatening.


My granddaughter's other grandma, told me that she took this little girl into my son's house, where his 6 month old was sitting on a blanket in the floor. She sat the little girl down by the baby. The 1 year old just reached over and scratched the baby on her face. The grandmother told me that the little girl is aggressive with children who are younger than her, but isn't that way with older kids.


I saw this little girl's behavior first hand at my granddaughter's birthday party. There was a baby present who was just a few weeeks old. This baby had to be shielded from the little girl as she tried to get close to him, acting like she was going to harm him.


She pinched a smaller girl for no reason at all. At one time, she wanted my granddaughter to give her something and when my granddaughter refused, this little girl reached out with both hands and clawed my granddaughter  on the legs.


I barely know this little girl, but she is my granddauther's half sister and is in the maternal home with her. My heart aches for this little one year old girl. My instincts tell me that all this child needs is to be shown some love. You would have to know her family background to understand that statement, and I don't want to go into that here.


But I am wondering what will this little one be iike in a few more years as she gets older and bigger? Aggressive behavior can begin very early.


Randy's Grandma

October 18, 2007, 2:22 pm CDT

where is help?

We are the parents of a 14 yr old 6'4" 298lb pissed off teenage boy. We have had him in treatment since he was 3 for his anger and agression.  Now we are still trying to get help.  we have done the 911 calls and delt with DHS and the schools and the hospitals and thereapists and drs.  Now what are we supposed to do.  We here about all these places that help and all these tests that can let you know if it is physical.  But what do people do that dont have access to those things.  He is getting out tomorrow of the place he has been in for the last 3 weeks and we are terrified of what can and will eventually happen if things stay the same.  He has already permanantly scared family members HOW MUCH MORE IS A PERSON TO TAKE

how do we who love and want to help our kids get help for them and us?     

October 18, 2007, 2:24 pm CDT

10/18 Deadly Kids

Quote From: jaybird2

 My son is 8 years old and he acts just like the last child. We have been in and out of doctors offices, some of the best in the country. He has acted like that ever since he was born. We also have an older daughter who gets a lot of his abuse. He's had doctor's say he has PDD, and mood disorders. We tired everything from med.'s, therapy, punishments, and even reward charts. It seems like everything makes it worse. He does not act like this in school so that confuses everyone, although he did act horrible in Disney world only months ago. He has hit everyone in our family (extended and all), he just keeps getting worse he has threaten to kill himself, me (his mother), my cats. Some days he's a sweet very caring boy, even for a month at a time then when he's bad he's bad. My heart does out to everyone especially the husbands and wives, it takes a lot out of a marriage. You can't say anything until you walk a mile in someone's else's shoes. I have and currently am, so I know the pain. I've also hit a dead end because my husband and I are caught between our 10 year old daughter and him. What to do, when is to much to much for her to take and she starts to date men that treat her like her brother does? what more can we do, no one helps you even when you're begging for it. Just stay strong and try your best, but please don't speak our judge until you've walked a mile in our shoes.

99% of the time it is the parents, the other 1%, there is something genetic or other cause.


If you give in just to keep the child quiet, buy love and affection, reward bad behavior, over-spoil the child, neglect the child, abuse mentally, physically or emotionally they will respond negatively in some way, they are damaged and it shows itself in various forms. You will see their behavior get worse. They copy what they see.  If you choose to see something that you do or say as "normal" don't think it IS. I have seen so many 'abnormal' (and addictive) things parents do that their kids have mimicked and ended up becoming very mentally unstable themselves. Once you break their spirit and soul, it's usually gone for good.

October 18, 2007, 2:33 pm CDT

excuse me?

Quote From: herald7

I have nothing but sympathy for these families and what they are going through. If these kids are still a danger, they should be kept away. However, these are children. They cannot yet be held entirely responsible for their behavior, It's the parents' responsibility to teach them empathy and maturity. I don't know these people and I don't want to judge them. But it felt like the parents aren't interested in trying to help their kids; they just want to either keep them away, or hope they somehow "fix" themselves.

its up to the parents to teach the kids maturity and empathy is that what i read?


we have been teaching our kids these things for 18 and 14 years yet our 14 yr old is still trying to kill us?


so im sorry once more could you please tell us parents that have delt with these issues for years how it is


that we are not properly raising our children??????????????????

October 18, 2007, 3:01 pm CDT

i know what you are going through

Quote From: shawnylou

My lil 8 year old boy has the best smile on earth and the most precious face. He has been talking steadily since he was born making all sorts of sounds and babble ,he has the imagination of a future author to be and can go to any world in his mind. His large motor skills are beyong those of his age, his small motor skills are behind by at least 2-3 years and he is just starting to learn to read. He has just learned to hold a pencil.

This is his DX: He is BI-POLAR, Attachment disorder, ODD, and possibly early on-set shizophrenia. Is there a possibility if border line autism? Maybe. He has a high IQ and is cunning.

He has serious asthma and is on madications for that is advair, albuteral zyrtac and a nose spray nasennex.[ he has a nebulizer when things get too bad  In psychiatric meds, he has lamictal ,clonidine  Seroquel and when he gets so violent he will kill you and anyone he comes in contact with, we do GIVE HIM ketamine *K*  as the physicians call this hard medication. He is alergic to everything as  is his brother. he is an active kid and loves the outdoors and bike and rides and runs around and screams and plays harder than most. His older brother age 13 is not violent and is calm and .

The 8 year old is in a special school with a room if he acts up that is padded for the school staff to put him into so he does not hurt himself or anyone else.

Remember he is a precious child when not inflamed with hate and anger fear.

he has beat me and kicked me so hard I had bruises on my legs for weeks and at times I am scared to pieces of him. I am unable to take him to church because of his un-predictability and he would scare the lil ones to pieces. He has hardly any friends in the neighborhood. He never has anyone show up to his birthday party. He will fight just about anyone and threaten them with their lives.

My husband and I cannot leave him with a regular sitter, we have to have professioanl sitters who know how to handle this kid and NOT hurt him and know how to restrain him accordingly.  WE had CPS called on us at a lab one time because we had to restrain him for a blood draw and the lab tecnician refised to draw blood from the child because he was afraid of the child and so I threatened his job and he came back at me. CPS came in and knew about the child and said " Oh this lil guy"  I get the bruises and the child is fine. For all blood draws now they sedate him. For teeth fillings they use anesthesia and for me they use " Oh honey we admire you" really?

I /we do not want to lose this child and we struggle daily to weekly to hold on tight to this human being who we know can turn out to be a bit different in many ways. he is very VERY violent and yet he can be a pussy cat too. We do not keep any guns in the house, we would be dead by now and knives are carefully maintained. We have 4 cats and one dog. When he gets angry we have taught him if he hurts an animal we call the police. We have called the police on hurting humans and have had to call them when he refused to take his meds when he tore the hosue apart from one end to the next. A piece of dust set him off. CPS is now looking into respite care for my husband and I so we can go out once a month.. maybe. I trust no one with him , he is hard to handle and if he got hurt I would come apart. OR for that matter if anyone else got hurt I would come apart.. hell this is hard...

My son got sick with encephalitis in april and has seizure but the part of the brain that they affect is his frontal and temperal lobes which are the main centers for behavior.My son has been admitted in a phyc ward for the last 2 months due to the violence he shows.I have 3 other children and he hurts them he threatens them he has just about broke my nose and bit me so hard he took a chunk of skin off of me.He was diagnosed in 05 with odd but now they have changed that and they dont know what he has.In Alberta they have a program called Family Support For Children With Disabilities.They are providing respite care and full time aides in home because he is a danger to himself and everyone around him.He has destroyed property,thrown bricks,bottles,smashed window and the police wont touch him because he is medical but the phyciatrist wont touch him because hes medical due to the seizures and the neurologist wont help but up the meds and he seizes usually every 2 day 2 or 3 times.They dont know whats causing this so they wont hospitalize him and there is no group homes that can take him because of the rages and the institutions wont take him because hes not mental they say.I know how hard it is and frustrating to go through when you feel like no one is listening or will help you
October 18, 2007, 3:07 pm CDT

Deadly Kids

My heart was sick watching the distress that the parents of the children who are so violently disturbed. As for the stepmom who is wanting her step-son to display remorse - I think she should be thinking about where she will be moving with her own biological children. I WOULD NEVER trust him again. For the mother whose son is threatening the younger sister - I would have to whop is butt like a man. NEVER would I let a child make me afraid to live in my home.
October 18, 2007, 3:08 pm CDT

deadly kids

 As a person that works with kids everyday, and sees what people send into school in lunch boxes,
I would like to ask a question.
Has anyone every checked to see how much caffeine these kids are eating and drinking in a day? 
If it is a significant amount then that could be part of the problem.  Their bodies can not handle it and
their diet should be mortified.  I am not suggesting that this is the only thing going on but it is a
great place to start. 
Hope this can help anyone out there.
October 18, 2007, 3:14 pm CDT

Link you should look at


The above link is a forum on psychopaths AND kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder  RAD, you can google it.  Bascially its childhood psychopaths, kids without feeling, no remorse, no compassion.  Only concerned with themselves.  Also you can google Dr Hare who is the expert on the subject.  I don't know why Phil did not bring this up on the show.  One last thing, therapy only makes these people worse and a high percentage of convicts in prison are psychopaths.  I think you'll find the forum interesting.

October 18, 2007, 3:36 pm CDT

I was afraid of my daughter when she was only 3 yrs old

I can relate to being afraid of your own child.  I used to be afraid I wouldn't wake up if my daughter entered our room at night - she was only 3 yrs old.  I didn't know what she might do to me.  She started attacking me when she was only 9 months old.  She is adopted, but we she had been with us since she was 3 months old. At 3 1/2 yrs old she was diagnosed with reactive attachment disorder and bipolar disorder.  Later she was also diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy.   She had no compassion or feeling for anyone.   We have been in therapy since she was 3 1/2 years old, and she is now 10 years old.   She does now have empathy and has bonded with us, but it has been a long and difficult road.  Without the correct therapy, she would never have had a chance.  Since this young man is 9 years old, based upon what I have gone through, it seems to me he is going to need the correct therapy in a controlled setting away from his home.  Without empathy, he won't be able to stop himself because he can't relate to others at all.  The correct therapy and meds will be a real key.  Good luck!


October 18, 2007, 3:39 pm CDT

Common Sense?

I just watched this show because of the subject, and I was shocked that a solution which worked on me wasn't mentioned.


My sister was born when I was three, and I really didn't like her.  Once it came to the point that I actually began to beat her, as an infant, while she was strapped down in her car seat and my mom went inside to get something.  I got out of my seat and my mom came back to a screaming baby.


So, she did a very logical thing, which she didn't do too often.  She hauled me out of the car and gave me the worse spanking of my life for doing that to my defenseless sister.  I still remember being on the floor as she assailed my bottom, but even though it was shocking as a child, I never did that to my sister again, and also now that I'm a mature twenty year old who doesn't drink, do drugs, or even smoke, I can look back and say I was a brat, and I'm not mad at her for what she did.


I think a lot of parents, nowadays, are afraid to actually pull down their child's pants and discipline them.  It is not abuse if you don't make them bruise, it is a measure of discipline which affects a child more than words ever can.  My mom let me know that what I did was wrong, and I know it was.


I was still a handful growing up, and puberty was the worse.  My mom kept telling me, when I was a child, "if you keep trying to hurt your sister, she WILL get you back."  But, as I stated before, those words meant nothing to me.   I didn't care because I thought I had a solid foundation of logic.  I hated my sister because she was annoying.


Well, now I'm older, and I'm very sad to say that making my sister so defensive is rearing its nasty head.  I saw the sister of the nine year old violent boy, how she was learning to be violent, and I saw my sister.  She's an alright person, but she believes the world is all about her.  She uses her strength, at the age of seventeen, to hurt me and my dad, but all she gets is sent to her room.  If my dad ever rose a belt though, she screams like a child because she knows that correction for her actions is needed.


So, I'm watching this show, and am thinking "alright, the kids are getting power by being acknowledged that their actions invoke fear."  Hey, that's a HUGE boost for kids.  Children are weaker than those older than them, and they know it.  Why give them that power when all you have to do is assert your own?  Animals do it, and it works.  And I don't care if people say "well we're better than animals" because if you look at the facts, animals don't rape one another, they don't kill with no reason...  So why would humans do that?


It sickened me that those children were turned away to be 'psychologically analyzed'.  I have a friend who went to a psychologist, and it was just wrong.  By the time I moved away, she had started to apply being 'mentally disturbed' into excuses, and the more she thought like that, the worse she got.


It's like a placebo, a fake pill.  You tell someone it will make them pass out within five minutes, give it to them, and five minutes later you can see them asleep and say "it was a Tylenol".  Humans ARE smart beings, but they make things more complicated than need be, and because of that life itself is complex.


So, Phil, do another show in ten years for those young boys, and show people the results along with the methods of correction the parents used.  THAT would be a good show.  What you showed though was how children CAN have power, and apparently the parents never had the spine to smack their child like they deserve.  Do you know how many children watched that?  I wonder how many have gotten ideas from your show as the adults in the audience watch captivated disturbed parents, and their fear.  You said yourself that many children wish for a magic want...


The boy who used poison, yes, keep the stuff away, I agree whole heartedly.  Also, if he ever does something again, make the little brat feel the inferiority he's been avoiding.  The nine year old also should have been dragged outside, as he IS a weak child, and spanked right in front of the mother and the smacked child.  Then, the nine year old WOULD know that he couldn't hide and scream to avoid judgment, and the child who was smacked wouldn't have to feel that other children have power over him.  I grew up beaten up by a gang of boys at school, and to this day I feel inferior and meek.  So, you missed the story of one victim Phil.


So, if anyone read this through, thank you for reading what I see as common sense.


There is no light, without darkness to define it,

the bad is needed to describe the good, and vice versa.

But when the definition of one side is too strong,

remember two negatives make a positive.


So, do what instinct dictates, and stop listening to the over analyzing voice in your head.  If it talks you out of the correct answer on a multiple choice test, it can do far more.  Things are never too far out of hand to correct, and when you do it properly then life will be good.


I wish all those who have had children like this the best in life, and I wish the children the best as well.  If the parent gives up, then so does the child.

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