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Topic : 11/22 Saboteurs

Number of Replies: 988
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Created on : Friday, September 07, 2007, 03:36:27 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 9/14/07) Do you know someone who smiles to your face, but schemes and maneuvers behind your back? Dr. Phil takes on saboteurs –-people who undermine others for their own personal gain. First up, Linda claims her daughter-in-law, Deanna, is a master manipulator. Linda says Deanna is so set on keeping her son and grandchildren away that she has allegedly bruised, scratched, pushed and verbally attacked her. Deanna says Linda is causing the vicious divide, and that it’s high time her mother-in-law stop playing the victim. Will the women ever stop pointing fingers at each other? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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December 3, 2007, 7:05 am CST


Quote From: sinder

I am the stepmother  to an 8 year old  girl that my heart does not know I did not  create. Her  mother died of a drug overdose 18 months ago and her father and I have had her fulltime since that day. Prior to that day, her mother and her mother's family had kept her from him for over a full year. Everytime we got close to getting to her, they moved her to a different relative's house in a different county requiring more paperwork and transferring of petitions.  They told her he abandoned her...that he didn't want to pay child support so that he could see her...and on and on. We ended up having no choice but to sever the ties with the family for a time while she was in grief counseling and trying to rebuild a relationship with her father.  They took us to court to try and gain custody (which they lost), then they tried to sue for visitiation (which they lost), then they tried to sue for guardianship of her estate (which...yes they lost).  We try to make it work every month...sometimes it works and sometimes it does not but I'll be damned if I'm going to let anyone make derogatory comments about the only living parent she has left essssssssspecially if it is NOT true. don't get to confuse and hurt her like that I don't care if you are God Herself. 

Grandparent or or not....if there is emotional damage being done to the child's psyche then someone has to step up and protect them from it. I am in no way saying that the Grandmother in question here is causing comment is a general response to the posts about Grandparents having the rights no matter what. I disagree.  Everyone involved, parent and Grandparent alike, need to remember that kids hear everything...they sense more than we give them credit for and they know things without being told. If Mommy and Gramma don't like each other, the kid knows.....and now you've put the child in a situation similar to a divorce.  All in the name of love and 'my rights'. 

And before anyone assumes anything: I have two college age boys with a man I married at 19 and divorced at 24. His mother is the woman I consider my Mom and I treat her as such. She introduces me as her daughter...we talk alllllllllll the time...I am the executor of her will over both of her sons mind you. I love her with all my heart.  Through thick and thin, she was consistent, fair and nonjudgemental. Some 20 years later, I can honestly say she has been the single most influential person in my life.  So it CAN be done.

Yes. I see your point . But they are still not a regular occurrence in a lot of families. And the both of you

had to fight to get her into your family.  My heart goes out to all of you. But you did fight to get her and are still fighting to keep her. Even though you talk of emotional damage being done.

The great  percentage of grandparents do not want to take the kids from the parents, We just want to have some recognition in there lives.

January 7, 2008, 11:12 pm CST

Saboteuring Daughter-In-Law

Quote From: nanabee57

you raised your son. Does he have a mind?  Tell your boy to go for counseling to prepare to leave her. Stay out of it as much as possible. I am sorry for you. Blessings

Sorry to be so late replying to your post.  I'm sure you've met plenty of extremely intellectually intelligent people who either lack common sense or didn't use the common sense God gave them, after they got married? 


When I married my Ex-Husband (who later turned out to be a Sadistic Psychopath), he forced me to give up my own family in lieu of only his family.  When I married him, I made the huge mistake of sharing with him, his Mom, and family that my own Mom and Dad had been really violent to me and my Siblings.  He and his family all said I didn't need my own family anymore because they all loved me! However, when I was forced to Divorce my Husband after he tortured and killed my precious pets, after he first caused me a permanent back injury (including doing far more to me than I could possibly outline here), his entire family turned their backs not only on me, but also on my Son, despite having professed their undying love for both of us, claiming they considered us to be their "real" family! 


Since before my Ex-Husband and I even knew my Son was living with my future Daughter-In-Law, she and her Mom began working on him, trying to convince him to turn his back on his own family.  My Son's 24 yr. old Dad was emotionally immature and he emotionally abandoned him immediately following his birth, because he was jealous of his newborn Son!  My Husband kept leaving me every few minutes when I was in the labor room, but when it was time for our baby to be born, he stayed with me in the Delivery Room.  When our Son was born at 2:14 p.m., my Husband seemed really happy, but he left immediately after his birth, and made no attempt to call me or return to the Hospital until 6:00 p.m. the next day!  I was naturally very upset, and asked him why? He said, "Because I wanted us to have a Daughter, not a Son!"  I couldn't believe what I was hearing! The overseas military hospitals didn't have ultrasound machines in the OB/GYN clinics or labor and delivery rooms in the early 1970's, but evidently, had my Husband known I was pregnant with a boy instead of a girl, he would have wanted it aborted!  I asked him why he was so upset about us having a boy, he said, "Because boys are always 'Mama's Boys', but girls are always 'Daddy's Girls'!  I had thought he and his Dad were always close, but evidently he was talking about his jealousy of his only Sibling, his younger Sister.  I explained to him it doesn't have to be that way!  Most men want a Son for their first child! 


Despite my Husband wanting anything to do with our Son all those years--including not wanting to hold him, play with him, or do anything else with him--I didn't Divorce him until our Son was 5-1/2 yrs., after I heard him angrily tell our Son, "I don't like you and you don't like me, so let's keep it that way!"  What he said so traumatized our totally potty-trained Son, he immediately began bedwetting.  It continued for at least a full 6 mos.!  After we Divorced, my Husband cut off our Son's child support 3 times, which forced me to have to go to a Military JAG Officer each time, to get it re-instated! He made no attempt to exercise his visitation rights to see our Son, and never called or sent him any Birthday cards or gifts or Christmas cards or gifts during all those years! He finally wrote our Son immediately after his 18th birthday (after he had already cut off his child support the 4th time, before being legally allowed to cut it off), announcing he was coming to our Son's Graduation!  Naturally, our Son was furious, and didn't want his Dad there, but I felt as his Mom it was important to tell him he really needed to finally make peace with his Dad, or else he'd carry his anger and bitterness with him the remainder of his life.  Against our Son's will, his Dad showed up at his Graduation; and then made no attempt to contact him after that!  He didn't gave a cent toward his Son's college education, so our Son went into the Navy at the end of the first year.  He then tracked down his Dad and saw him several times, which I was actually pleased about, as I thought that would help my Son's anger problem. However, despite our Son traveling to see his Dad at his own home several times, his Dad--to this day--has made no attempt to come here to his Son's home to visit him or his Grandson!  I saw how his abandonment hurt our Son all those years; however, his Dad is an adult and responsible for his own decisions; not me!  However, my Son has never had the courage to confront his Dad about his anger at him abandoning him all those years, so my Son has instead been using me as his scapegoat.  He witnessed his Step-Dad verbally and psychologically abusing me all those years we were married, so abusing women is all he knows.  His Step-Dad did not physically abuse me until after my Son left home to go to college and then enlisted in the Navy.  However, I think if my Son had witnessed him physically abusing me, he might have attempted to kill his StepDad!


Getting back to the subject at hand: being married doesn't mean you permanently hand over your mind to your Spouse on a silver platter!  In addition to my battering Ex-Husband wanting me to turn my back on my own Mom and Dad and my Siblings, he and his Mom both wanted me to also turn my back on my own Son, whom I love, which is something I absolutely refused to do!   


I don't know for sure why my Son is so paranoid where therapists are concerned, but I think perhaps he might have seen one once or twice during those 4 yrs. he was in that nuclear sub, chasing Russian subs around on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean! That's the only thing I can think of as to why he's so paranoid about going to see a therapist. 


I already realized all I could do was share my feelings with a few dear friends of mine, and pray about the situation.  However, after we turn things over to God, many times we realize it's difficult to just leave them entirely with Him, especially when our loved ones continue hurting us for absolutely no reason.  AMEN?



January 11, 2008, 8:31 pm CST

the point is...

Quote From: brownp

If you didn't grow up with grandparents how do you know what you missed?  My grandparents were a huge part of my life.  Sorry you are having family trouble, but you really missed the mark with grandparents.
the point is, I grew up without being scarred from not having them in my life.  There was no active harm done.  I agree that it might have been fun having them, but you can't miss or be hurt by what you don't know.  What I DO know is that , that woman was not someone I would want in my children's life.  Having a grand mother like her... well, I'd rather stick forks in my eyes.
February 22, 2008, 2:53 pm CST

Please re read what i actually wrote

Quote From: kim780

I wonder what state you live in also that would give "court ordered" visitation to a grandmother when her biological daughter is still alive. Is there more maybe to your story that is unique? Maybe you partly were raising the grnadchildren due to some type of behavior that the SIL and daughter were involved in? You do not need to answer if too presonal I am just raising the question out loud so other grandmothers reading this post do not get overly excited to do the same if their circumstance is not the same. Getting grandparents rights is extermely hard and as far as I looked into it the Supreme Court had ruled awhile ago it was unconstituaional to give grandparents rights over the wishes of the biological parents. And that is doing so was too much governmental control. You can research it though to see. So the parents could potentially take it higher and higher until they reach the supreme court or contact their congressman or senator for help. But keep in mind if someone does go for grandparent rights you will have to fight a battle in court with the biological parents present and their lawyers. And if you lose ( which is a big possibility with odds higher that you will lose then win that fight//unless you have extenuating circumstances) you will quite possibly sever any chance you ever had to repair the damage to your relationship. You have to prove facts to a judge....not just you want to see them.  Maybe there is someone on here who has "grandparents rights" that could post and give others a clue what to expect?? I just hate to see grandparents take this step and lose it all........................although I am sure their are grandparents out there being unjustly kept from their grandchildren...infact i am quite certain there are...........but they are not your children..........they are your grandchildren and you really have no "rights" to them just because you raised your own children. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.................
May 4, 2008, 5:39 pm CDT

glad your life is perfect

Quote From: kim780


I am sorry you took offense to what i said, but I was not attacking you. I am confused as to where in my reply you found the attack? But from reading your posts and replys to others I see a pattern of where you are very much on the defense towards anyone who doesn't agree with you. This may be the problem in your relationship with your daughter, you need to control things and be agreed with at all turns. I feel sorry for you that you have to be such a victim. Get some help and deal with that aspect of your personality and maybe when your daughter feels that you hear her when she speaks to you rather then walk on egg shells around you.........things may turn around for you. As for me using my own life to "attack" you..............I happen to get along with my parents, my inlaws that are my husband's father and step mother and my inlaws that are my husband's mother and step father. I have resolved all my issues and now I am happy to say we all get along. But my mother in law had to stop being the "victim" first. She did. It was hard for her and she had a lot of pride that prevented her from doing so for a long time. I have never been prouder of her or thought her a stronger woman then when she did admit what she had done and make an effort to change. She was insecure and jealous..............she didn't need to be. She is important and that never changed to us...............she just got a different role and needed to find her place. So do you. And no matter what your therapist thinks...friends..ect. You can be as right as everyone thinks...............your still losing. So miserable right or happy compromising??? And be clear your therapist and friends and everyone else in your life are only hearing YOU'R SIDE of of course they think you are right. They are probably sick and tired of hearing about it so they agree with every thing you say.I have no doubt you painted yourself right. If you were being thruthful you would paint a true picture of what you have done wrong also.................only then you can do the real work to get things better. Right now everyone in your life thinks your RIGHT......................but it probably doesn't feel that great since you are celebrating ALL ALONE without your daughter or your grandchildren. I know you have again felt attacked by this post and I know you do not believe me when I say it is not to attack you. I do not know you and I do not pretend to know everything..........OR ANYTHING about your life in particular. I am just telling you what it seems like to me. Seriously  life is too short...............stop being right and start being happy.

There is obviously no point in trying to discuss anything with you as you are correct about everything even when you don't know all the facts. First fact I believe I have only posted approx. 3 times which can hardly point to a pattern in any direction: Case in point---you stated I only told my side of the picture-not true. Children were present together with me at the therapist as I told them I was sorry things were not perfect in their childhood and hoped we could start from there as adults as I was a single parent raising them without much help and did make mistakes and unfortunately would continue to however, not the same ones twice. NOTE: therapist could hear with her own ears directly from all of us EXACTLY what each of us said or did not say and it was not a story I told or retold. Second incorrect fact you mentioned was that my husband/and or friends I indicated in my post were ACTUALLY present during the conversations in question and could also hear with their own ears what was said or not said. So to address the fact you erronously purported is not a story I am compelled to tell everyone and force them to agree with me. My husband states they are spoiled brats period. I don't necessarily agree with him but believe everyone one is entitled to their own opinion even you. I am extremely sorry more than you could ever know that I did not have all the information available to me from television, books, internet and studies that had not been done when I raised my children that are available to MOST people now. I did the best I could then as I do now (however I am more aware of numerous things I could have done differently then and do differently now if given the opportunity). Saying:"live and learn". I have and HAVE learned that to put my thoughts on the internet without explaining every possible scenero from each persons point of view  was and is a mistake. One that I won't be making again. FYI it take two to make a relationship work or not work. Having been in a successfull marriage for over 21 years I feel and think I must have learned something from living my life with the occasional mistake as I am just human as we all are. Does it stop me from trying to do better no! Will I never make another mistake or poor choice (informed or not informed) no! I can only do the best I can with what I have and pray knowing God will take care of the rest. The friends I have had the longest agree with me on some things and disagree with me or others as it should be. Does it make us any less

friends absoutely not if anything it makes us better friends knowing that each of us always speaks our own truth as we know it and don't just agree with the other person to never disagee with them or ALWAYS agree with either way you want to say that. In closing I am probably making a mistake by telling you this but will take the chance to attempt to get you to see that I actually do have my childrens and grandchildren's best interest at heart. I emailed the Dr. Phil show regards the current situation with my children and grandchildren and ask for advice to bridge the gap. To my surprise one of their staff  responded and ask if I would be interested in being on the show (a fact you can actually ck for yourself).

After some discussion and thought, I told them I felt (knowing my children as I do- and the producers not knowing them at all) that to ask them to be on the show and be exposed to the critical eye of the public was not fair to them even though I really wanted to have the opportunity to rekindle a relationship with them. I welcome constructive criticisim  as it is meant to help you (meaning anyone it is directly at). I personally have been helped by that. However, to ask this of someone that does not respond to constructive information be it well intentioned or not while we are in the midst of a family problem would not in anyway promote any reconsiliation of any form. It is not my intent to cause harm nor ever control only to attempt peace and harmony (knowing full well this is not possible at all times as we are only human). If you are familiar with the story in the bible regarding the dispute with the two mothers over the child and the decison to split the child in half, the actual true biological mother that loved her child said no give the child to the other mother as she did not want her child harmed. Lesson as I believe and most others do: we try and protect those we love. A further note from me as a mother-I have tried to protect them whether it hurts me or not in the process and have had to allow them to make their own mistakes and let them learn from them as some times most people will not learn from your mistakes by sharing them and can only learn when they make them on their own. This was intended as a learning tool for both me as the speaker (trying to better explain myself with words as I have had problems with this in the past and now as a person with a limitations due to health issues /not a victim of anything just a fact) and particularly you or anyone that happens to read this. The choice to stop prior to speaking/and or writing to consider you never have all the facts often just due to time constraints. To quote someone you just might be quite familiar with Dr. Phil,"there is your side and their side and the actual somewhere in between" or something to that effect as I don't believe that is the actual quote. Lastly I must say that my husband, children and anyone that has known me over a month or two realizes that I specifically try to repeat the actual specific word and even the tone the person and myself use as I repeat the conversation and even laugh at the degree of earnest with which I ATTEMPT to even get the TONE correct as the TONE can change the meaning of a single word or entire sentence. I hope this may be of help to you or others  as it has  been an opportunity for me to attempt to try to explain the facts with more understanding and success with ATTEMPT being the opporative word. I would apprecate you keeping any further thoughts to yourself as I believe it would not be productive to either of us and I am currently tryiing to stay just in the moment of NOW. Not in the past nor in the future. I am currently attempting to be happy with my present situation knowing that only God can change anything or anyone. Good luck and have a blessed day.

July 12, 2008, 4:32 pm CDT

11/22 Saboteurs

Quote From: mpc333

I could not agree with you more.  There is absolutely NO respect towards the elderly in American Culture today.  Just wait until all the disrespectful kids feel (really adults now if you can call them that) when they grow up and their children abandon them because of the way the parents have treated THEM.  They will be getting a dose of their own medicine.  I am a true believer in what goes around - comes around.  My daughter holds my grandchildren hostage and denies me visitation and uses them as punishment to hurt me when she gets mad at me.  HOW WRONG IS THAT?  My daughter will get hers in the end, but in the meantime my grandchildren suffer the most.




A heartbroken grandmother

I think that it is a shame what your daughter is doing to you!!  It's those lil' kids that will suffer from not being allowed to have a relationship with their Grandmother...but you just remember that it's not your fault, I read what you wrote and your daughter is doing "SO WRONG" by not letting you have that special time with them...she will deeply regret it in the end, and she may be in that same exact position one day, how would she like it, if it happens to her?


I will pray for your situation to get better, I just thought that I'd let you know that  there are people out

here that understand what you're going through...and care~~


Take Care & God Bless...


Hampton, Virginia

September 1, 2008, 5:00 am CDT

Deanna is an evil abomination of a woman

Quote From: onice101010

Deanna is just cold.  Maybe the mil is intrusive and too emotional and clingy but did anyone notice how Deanna smiled while the mil cried?  How cold is that?  I think the mil is a bit manipulative also...the tears and "poor pity me" attitude is weak.  But, Deanna, oh man...please don't marry any of my sons when this one throws your ass out the door.  You have evil eyes and I'm not saying that to be just look cold and heartless and probably have a nasty nasty temper when you don't get your way.  What a "b"!  And Deanna never did explain why she hated her own mother.  Let the woman see her grandkids ...who the hell are you to keep her from them. 


A word to the MIL:

Honey, I am glad you are getting counseling but you need to just leave them all alone...son and all!  If he is so weak as to let that woman run the show and make lists for you to abide by then he aint worth all those tears.  I am a mother of sons and have been through a little bit myself.  Let me tell you this if you pull back and don't call you'll see a difference in the future.  You WILL get a call either from your son or his "b" of a wife.  Granted they'll say "how come you haven't called your grandkids or your own son" and turn it around on you, but, they are really calling cause they WANT a confrontation...back off...let him go....he'll be back...they always come back...heard of the Prodigal son???

I completely agree with you.  While the MIL is not completely innocent, Deanna is a nasty, evil, cold-hearted, hurtful, hateful, sadistical abomination.  She is taking great pleasure hurting this poor lady.  I just cant get over how evil she is.  I am in Australia and am quite behind, and I'm sure alot has happened since, but I just hope things have worked out.  If not, then I hope this evil woman loses everything, her husband and kids.  Does she believe in Khama?
October 26, 2008, 1:15 pm CDT

11/22 Saboteurs

Quote From: flthomcat

No, it's your granddaughter's loss and your loss. YOur granddaughter does not deserve that. I have to wonder if you and your son have not sat down and had an open, honest, RESPECTFUL talk about how much you love him, your grandaughter and how much you wish to be a part of their lives....whatever it takes to be a part of their lives.


You sound as though your ego is wounded. Suck it up for your granddaughter's sake and continue to try to work things out. Have you sat down and had an honest, good, non-threatening talk alone w/ your daughter-in-law? If you haven't, you've definitely not tried hard enough.


Get back in the game of life; set your ego aside and sit down and TALK!!!! What can it hurt???? It's not your daughter in law's loss; she is probably thrilled to have you gone. All you've done is given her what she thinks she wants. Change her mind!

My ego isn't wounded.  We even had the opportunity to have Dr. Phil try and resolve this problem.  My son's wife replied that she had more important prorities in her life and I wasn't one of them.  You are right about it being my granddaughters loss and now a grandson but that is part of life.  We don't always get what we want.
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