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Topic : 05/09 Finding Allene and Mollie

Number of Replies: 406
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Created on : Friday, May 05, 2006, 07:00:27 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Join Dr. Phil on an incredible journey in search of two missing girls, Allene, 13, and Mollie, 15, who were abducted by their father a year ago. The search is filled with suspense, traveling thousands of miles away from the U.S. through the jungles of a Third World country. Go inside a deeply religious community, known as the Hutterites, where the members live as if they were from a previous time: girls in bonnets and long dresses, transportation by horse and buggy and no electricity or running water. Will this global rescue mission lead to the recovery of two kidnapped children? Who has them and, more disturbingly, for what purpose? Talk about the show here.

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May 9, 2006, 1:25 pm CDT

What religion did these girls start out in?

Had they said anywhere if this couple were in this same religion when they were married?  someone here said the girls weren't born into the Menonite (sp?) religion and so did they say they'd been born to a different religion or no religion at all?  Frankly I agree with the others that feel there's nothing wrong with this religion &/or the Amish lifestyle/religion.  As for a parent that runs claiming that a parent has hurt the children I think such a thing has to be proved WRONG first prior to them being given unsurpervised visits with their children.  While it's true that there are some parents out there that will yell "child abuse" I think thatif they do it should have to be proved the other parent isn't because if we just assumed it's a lie for the purpose of alienating the other parent in the meantime a chiild is being destroyed if it's true they're being abused.  This happens ALL the time and when we've a 2 yr. old sitting in daycare curled in the fetal position because her father is sexually abusing her & then letting mother know & there's nothing mother can do legally (a true story)  I say that we need to question the parent being accused.   


If this man says that he's woken to his wife holding a knief to him face then it becomes our responsibility to make certain that this woman isn't some wacko that these kids are being handed over to to be terrorized.  If they've been practising this religion and they really are not comfortable watching television or wearing mainstream clothing then to force them to do so would be damaging to them IMOIf they do not want to attend highschool in the mainstream and would rather be homeschooled then that's the education they should receive.  And again whether this father goes to jail or not until they know if this mother is really a knief swinger (for any reason) these kids should be kept in one of those religious houses of their choice.  period.  Not foster care where they'd be scared and abused but with the people they trust and are already close to.   


just my 2 cents.     

May 9, 2006, 1:26 pm CDT

I have a major problem with this!!

Quote From: uknowit2

Obviously this 'single' mother has anger issues and is obviously abusive.  The masonite community, however old fashioned, seems to be doing a wonderful job with these girls.  They are both very intelligent and much more articulate than the 'norm' society is raising today.  The daughter's obviously do not want to be living with their mother so what IS all the fuss about ???  The men in this world should have equal rights to custody instead of just being looked at as a paycheck. I also believe that if more men in this world were given custody of their children instead of mother's,  we would have a much lower teenage dropout rate (or the homeschooling copout), a lower rate of teenage pregnancy, and street crime/gang banging would decrease.  Just because someone is a 'mother' for giving birth does not automatically 'make' them a mother that is nurturing and caring of their children.  When this country realizes that we will be in a much better place.

There are laws and regulations that we all must follow. At the end of the day we live in a society of laws. Even if you do not agree with the law you still have to follow it. The father broke the law and took the children to Belize against the mother's will. As I see it that's the bottom line.  


I have no problem with people living this lifestyle. What I do have a problem with is that these girls clearly lack the maturity to make a decision of this magnitude. They are under the age of 18 and are not old enough to understand the implications of joining this sect. It's not fair to them to allow them to be part of this sect at such a young age.   


I clearly side with the mother here. These girls should have a normal life, go to school, and get an education. If, after turning age 18 and reaching the age of legal maturity, they want to join the sect, more power to them. If they are doing so with sound mind and understanding the ramifications of moving to the desolate jungles of Belize, I have no problem with that.  


In their current condition, though, they are not in a position to make a decision like this. Even the Amish give their young a year off to determine what they want to do. These girls need to be afforded the same opportunity. I don't think it's fair to them to put them in Belize cut off from schooling and education.   


I fully support the mother here. What the father has done is illegal.   

May 9, 2006, 1:27 pm CDT

Are you kidding?

Quote From: tammyo1973

Listening to these girls talk they sound highly intelligent.  I would bet the schooling that they have had is alot more than most kids get in 12 grades of schooling.  


I would not live this lifestyle myself but it doesn't mean it is wrong either. 


I do not agree with them being taken away from the mother, but it doesn't on surface appear they have been abused in any way. They seem healthy, happy, and very bright. 


As Dr. P stated that lifestyle is like stepping back into time.  The ways of the past are much simpler and I don't see that the lifestyle should be shunned here.  That is not the poin tof this show. THe point of the show is that the father broke the law by taking the children.   


When people critisize this religion and lifestyle.. they lose sight of the purpose of this show. 

If you don't think being kidnapped, taken away from everything familiar, not seeing or talking to your mother for a whole year and living in isolation in a foreign jungle doesn't have a huge impact on your emotional health,  you are just out to lunch. 


The girls may not APPEAR abused, but this sort of abuse doesn't show itself like physical abuse does. In his twisted attempt to keep his daughters from being hurt, all this dad has done is hurt them a whole other way. 

May 9, 2006, 1:29 pm CDT

Allene and Mollie deserve a say in how they live.

If these were my girls I would be learning German and how to live plain. 



Don’t think playing tug a war with your kids is the loving thing to do.  Besides someone usually looses in tug a war and I would never risk that when it comes to my kids.  Right or wrong the risk is there.  I would beat my laundry on rocks and give up pretty much anything prior to giving up my relationship with my kids. 


Allene and Mollie want to live with a plain family.  Mom should try to be that family, if she values her relationship with her kids rather then temp them with the ways of the modern world.  She should help them be the people they want to be.  These girls are old enough to understand what that means. 


May 9, 2006, 1:31 pm CDT

The father should be prosecuted

Quote From: ymimad

I see the mother making a huge mistake here if she insists on prosecuting her husband.  the girls will only see that as wrong on her part and already they are estranged from her.  I hope she can let the girls live as they have chosen to live, and from what i have seen, they want to be amish or what is called Plain people.  we have lots of them around here where i live and they are good people.  

i think the mother isnt going to keep her word though. it sounds like she refuses to homeschool them which might be an option since they dont like the public school atmosphere. to be honest, i dont like it either. and for sure you cant send children to public school dressed like they are dressed. 


He violated the law! Period. He took these kids of out of the country against the mother's will. At the very least I would have his passport confiscated. This man is a flight risk. And even though he says on the show that he "would play nice", I wouldn't trust him. I fully support the mother if she prosecutes him. The father broke the law and should face the consequences. If I were the mother I would do the same thing.  


These girls should go to school, have an education, interact with normal kids their age, and plan their futures. Now, as I have said in other posts, after they have turned 18, and/or gone to college, completed their educations, and still want to be Hutterties/Amish/Menonites/Whatever these people call themselves, I have no problem with that. At that point they will understand what they are getting into and the ramifications associated with such a decision. 


However, as teenagers, they simply lack the maturity to make this type of decision. I knew what I was like at that age. I wouldn't fully understand the repercussions of joining a religious order like this group. They girls lack sound mind, clear judgment, and the maturity to make this type of decision. At this age it's not fair to them.  


I support the mother here completely. She is well within her rights to not only seek custody, but to throw her husband in jail. Her kids need extensive psychological counseling.  


I really can't believe that I'm seeing people here defend criminal behavior. If my spouse took my children out of the country I would be just as angry as this woman is. The mother is 100% in the right; the father is 100% in the wrong.  

May 9, 2006, 1:31 pm CDT

Need to see part 2

The situation of their religion is like that in Lancaster County, PA.  Many sects of Amish and Mennonites live, work, and do as Mike & Family do.  I am confused though on both parents mental stability.  What/How did the father grow up and the mother.  Do they forget where they are from?  I feel maybe till things are sorted that if the girls want to live with a plain community then place them with one till both parents are checked out.  The issue should secondly be what the girls want without pressure, they seem to be old enough to choose their religion destiny.  Brainwash is a harsh word, some people actually live all their lives in a community as such.  But I have to admit this is the first of that community that I have heard of in another country!. 
May 9, 2006, 1:32 pm CDT

These people aren't Hutterites

Quote From: pathfnder

The community described could not have been Hutterites, because there are no Hutterite groups in Central America, and Hutterites are not technologically backward. They drive modern vehicles,  farm thousands of acres with heavy diesel tractors, and manage their livestock barns with computerized climate control.

They look much more like Old Order Mennonites to me, and if so, would be reclusive indeed, but entirely peaceable and harmless.
 I agree... these are not Hutterites on this show. I see Hutterites all the time where I live and I've visited a Hutterite colony. Very friendly, open community and they drive trucks and use modern farm machinery.

The people on this show look like conservative Mennonites. Nothing scary about them at all. There are many of them living in towns near my city. Peaceful people. They're just misunderstood because they're out of the ordinary. Shows like this don't help, creating fear of the unknown.
May 9, 2006, 1:32 pm CDT

05/09 Finding Allene and Mollie

Quote From: czar1030

These incidents happen more often than people are aware of.  I had legal custody of my 3 girls.  My oldest ran away  and the courts did absolutley nothing.  If the roles were reversed I would still be in prison.  Three years ago, my younger 2 ran away and child services returned them to me, again the courts did nothing, they ran away and again were hidden at the same friends house.     

  The courts would not prosecute the mother or her friend.  The end result has been that I gave up, went to Iraq, and am still here on my second deployment.  The oldest went to prison for heroin use/possesion, the younger 2 one of had drug issues, and the youngest has so far managed to stay out of trouble, but all are very estranged from me.   

  These girls were bright and happy and not prone to getting into legal troubles and yes thier mother uses drugs,  and this is known to the court system which is part of the reason I was granted custody.  And she surrounds the girls and herself with drug abusers and real underbelly types.  So if you are looking for help in pennsylvania, or the legal system in general.  You have a better chance of hitting the lottery. 

Why did your daughters run away from your home?
May 9, 2006, 1:36 pm CDT


Quote From: ymimad

I see the mother making a huge mistake here if she insists on prosecuting her husband.  the girls will only see that as wrong on her part and already they are estranged from her.  I hope she can let the girls live as they have chosen to live, and from what i have seen, they want to be amish or what is called Plain people.  we have lots of them around here where i live and they are good people.  

i think the mother isnt going to keep her word though. it sounds like she refuses to homeschool them which might be an option since they dont like the public school atmosphere. to be honest, i dont like it either. and for sure you cant send children to public school dressed like they are dressed. 


I agree with you,  I also live around several Amish/Mennonite communities and some are wonderful people.  But understand that with all communities and religions you do have some/few that are dutifully wrong and mistreat children & spouses.  But you are right they could be homeschooled and the mother makes me feel she still has something up her sleeve besides public attention.
May 9, 2006, 1:36 pm CDT

05/09 Finding Allene and Mollie

Quote From: fluffyfat

I don't think this group fits the definition of cult at all.  This isn't Heaven's Gate, this is an old established religion that follows the teachings of Christ as the members interpret the Bible.  I'm a Methodist.   My church is main stream, but that doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong.   


I'm so impressed with Mollie and Allene.  They are so polite and articulate,  I'm not sure that they would be better off living with their mother and going to high school where they would be at risk for everything from anorexia to pregnancy to drug addiction.  I would personally rather see young girls in bonnets and braids than tattoos and belly rings.  I don't see anything wrong with sheltering young girls and I don't see why the mother's wishes about how they should be raised should have priority over the father's. 

 AMEN!! Very well stated!
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